I do find chinos fascinating in their breadth and the canvas waist band is an easy to forget driver of both formality and versatility. I really like the idea of chinos but if i ever make a pair id make them like the cos chinos i wear now, like a little bit more on the trousers side but also roomier on the upper leg. As discussed on our previous piece on rises, Ive found the rise needs to be here on me, or a good 2-3 inches higher. Have you looked at Hewitt Heritage Fabrics https://heritagefabrics.co.uk/product-range/? Trousers are cut as if the wearer is standing naturally, with feet closer to shoulder width. We also offer a range of colors including midnight and royal blue, off-white, dark olive, cappuccino, and various shades of grey and brown. An inch on the rise wouldnt have worked for me. Lastly, did W&S make any allowances for laundry shrinkage? I dont care so much about the finer making points, like the fact the buttonholes on the waistband and fly are sewn by hand. It will be good to see the new Mikutex cottons made up before I use them. Unfortunately I havent but like you I think they look promising. To a certain degree, yes. Not the most flattering IMO. I had no idea that chinos have a straight side seam, but that explains why they cant be pressed effectively with a centre crease. One thing I still cant make sense of: the pattern of chinos work from the outside leg and cut as if you are riding a horse. Imagine you are looking at the trousers laid flat, from above. Would really appreciate your opinion and hear whether you think its worth chasing that dream of having bespoke cotton trousers that are as comfortable as my Rota Sport ones. I'm a little nervous about you saving up so much for the jeans, just because I worry how many expectations might be placed on them. They feel much smarter than jeans, are far more comfortable, and one can be care-free and just throw them in the wash. Ive alway struggled though to find ones that fit, and particularly be high rise (which I find much more comfortable). Sure, its [emailprotected]. is that correct. So, the first issue with bespoke chinos is that you cant wash them. I can appreciate if someone who has very big legs would have this cut as is very functional as I can imagine this cut was adopted more as a casual work wear allowing the wearer with more movement but it just looks unflattering on your body. What colour would you describe your chinos, from the images it seems like a beautiful olive towards the darker side of the spectrum making them versatile. (On desktop). I love chinos as my go-to casual or weekend trousers. Forgive the homage but Ive been a long time reader (over a decade) and this is my first comment. Will W&S be using this as an offering going forward? See and interact with all Instagram stories @PermanentStyleLondon. How did Whitcomb go about procuring the fabric from Mikutex? The pattern for tailored trousers works from the middle of the trousers rather that the outer edge (the line of the crease). That you can do something about. I think they can send swatches, yes. Do you think this is due to the factors you point out in your review such as different patterns (jeans vs. dress trousers) and others or would you say that level of comfort could generally be achieved with a bespoke trouser maker using a different fabric with some level of stretch to it. Did you see that? Its impossible to source this style of chino at retailers. Which option looks best/most elegant do you feel? I like it. Below you can find our collection of tailored chinos. Ive long been an advocate of Officine Generale Fishermans Chino. So, bespoke seems like the only route or is Ventile not suitable as a smart casual chino fabric? Would W&S be able to do smart chinos akin to Rubatos? This meant that after one year the trousers had become almost only good for gardening. I used to think I knew the answer: the fabrics they used were too fine dress cottons, made with fine fibres, finished for a sleek look and good drape. I think the fading from garment washing reduces somewhat the sun fading risk. Resend your booking confirmation email here. For example, Id happily lounge around in that way in my workwear chinos (with no stretch) but wouldnt be as comfortable doing so in tailored cottons. I guess perhaps pictures dont quite capture it? Though Im willing to take the extra mile and seeing what I can accomplish through experimentation with Ralph in the States. For delivery appointments, please follow the link in your fitting appointment notification email or get in touch with us. Really? And do you know if the Mikutex cloth is available to purchase by the length? I see examples of trousers on older posts here that feature both attributes. Were these made in London or via WS offshore bespoke? Made of cotton, chinos often have a slight stretch to them. Very fast. In addition, the look of a bespoke chino has a much more put together, tailored look, allowing the reader to indulge in tailored design but fit in with the crowd in the office, so to say. Hey on a smart pair of chinos like that its the same as any tailored trousers really, as covered here. By the way, i am thinking that something i miss a lot is a really small bag that is capable of carrying my iphone, my card-wallet my car and home keys. Thank you. What might make one purchase one over the other? Im afraid sourcing appropriate materials for chinos like this by the metre is one of the biggest challenges. There is one advantage to this cut, though, which is that the material sits flush on the outside of the hips. hip, knee, and bottoms)? I recently bought a pair of flat front rota twill trousers and need to have them hemmed, I am unsure to do a turn up. I dont think it is, Tommy, because jeans were originally made for workers, on railroads and elsewhere, not for cowboys. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post if you / W&S manage to find a right hand twill cloth that works that is what would push me over the line and get a pair. I tend to enjoy sitting in the sun. The most important element was the double-stitched seams, which usually run down the inside or outside of the leg, or through the seat, on chinos. Would be good to have a follow-up article about performance after a few wears and washes. Choose from our wide range of fabrics and customisations. They removed the canvas from the structure of the waistband, used a simple cotton one on the inside of it, and reduced the amount of handwork (so these would be less likely to come undone in a machine). I am keen on understanding this jeans pattern vs tailored trouser pattern the straight line vs curved line. Yet the value of chinos isnt just in their versatility. The make would be similar, but the cloth would be different, and I dont either of us have looked into sourcing these cottons enough yet to know what that material would be. Permanent Style is the UK authority on classic and luxury menswear. Well, the cut is a fairly standard, roomier chino cut. I wouldnt get into khakis v chinos really, no. I know this has been a topic discussed previously but I would really appreciate your opinion: Over the years I have had many bespoke cotton trousers made in different types of cloth for the purpose of achieving a more elegant look as you could see on the Pommella IG account. I can try it at some point. Yes, I can see that. Yes, its the same cut whether pleated or not. Im on the lookout for a suede number. Does that make sense? I would be buying a pair of chinos from jack and jones and was confused between regular fit and slim fit. not directly related to chino but very cool cuff bracelet (pic 1), mind I ask were you purchased? Thanks, From Rubato. Most of my trousers are similar in length or ever so slightly shorter than yours. Of course, often chinos are garment washed too, making them feel softer and look worn in. Chinos off the rack just dont work for me for one reason or another, and while I have many pairs of casual trousers from my bespoke tailor, they all look as you say like tailored trousers! Very interesting commission Simon, Ive been wanting to try something like this for some time. I guess I havent paid attention to how the outer side seam looks on my trousers, but theoretically you can have a nice, straight crease and a straight seam, no? That will be fascinating. I would usually put a crease in tailored cotton trousers, but not in anything more casual. With our mens tailor made chinos, you can have the perfect pair of trousers fitted directly for you. More important is the fact the fit is as good as my bespoke trousers (the Blackhorse Lane MTM was great too, but its MTM rather than bespoke, and best thought of that way) and that I can now make chinos in any shape and design I want. Great value. Another way to think about it is that jeans are cut as if the wearer is riding a horse, with their legs unnaturally far part. Would it be possible to share the contact? Btw, is there a way to have a chino sit steadily at my natural waist just with a side tab? It said light dry clean and wash and dried reverse side. Unfortunate how theres a servere lack of a more relaxed/casual bespoke garments. Its only a small change in the angle of the leg, so it doesnt make a big difference. Yes, we did a small scale like that on the review of the Rubato chinos here: https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/05/rubato-officers-chinos-review.html, Afraid not, this is just bespoke from Whitcomb. Yes, Im sure Whitcomb could make them in corduroy. I gave Whitcomb the contact for Mikutex, but most mills like that dont sell to individuals, and not even small tailors. So robust jeans or chinos, heavyweight tees, loopwheel sweatshirts, horsehide jackets, boots and so on. I have in between inseam for off-the-rack and sometimes all thats left in my waist size is an even longer inseam. Why Choose Edit Suits for Your Tailored Chinos Based in both London and Singapore, we offer customisable chinos in a variety of colors that will suit nearly any occasion. This is interesting. What are your thoughts on using one of the Ventile cloths for casual chinos like these (perhaps a lighter weight version than is used in coats)? Thanks man, They will stay open more, probably. You guys have done a lot of more experimental stuff together, they must have had their boundaries as a tailor really pushed and this relationship must be very mutually beneficial. This is the only pair of trousers Ive seen that deserves to be called bespoke chinos. Its normally an issue with inner materials rather than outer ones: canvas becomes distorted or bent out of place, and linings on the inside of the jacket or waistband dont cope well either. Anything at that scale has a bit of that issue. Im especially interested in leg opening and thigh width for research into possible online purchases of rtw chinos. But if youve had bespoke before, youll know it isnt always nailed first time around. With the high-end Japanese chinos mentioned above, its always assumed that a lot of their character will come with washing and wearing over time. Why is this? Do you have a separate, lower quality wardrobe for wearing with the kids or do you take the view that clothes are made to be worn and just wear your high end stuff around them? You had me too until I saw the flap pocket no thanks! Likewise, the rise is either cut too low or too high. Well, of course being bespoke you can have those pockets however you want unlike anything ready made. What in the end would be more flattering for workwear chinos and more easy to alter. I dont know to be honest. I should say I have nothing to do with the company and do not know them at all I am just intrigued if Britain is producing a fabric to take on the best of Japanese high end denim and chino twill. I do not have a very showy tummy, but moderately thick thighs and i should point out that i am relatively a shorter guy with height of 5 feet 7 inch. This is why jeans can show selvedge down the outside: its a straight line, not a curve. Orvis made a good classic fit chino with 18 bottoms. Although i think one can make a judgement based on seeing the cloth first hand and as many hapy accidents could be expected as there would be failures. Hi Simon, this is an interesting project and its quite remarkable that you achieved something that you are so happy with. Sorry to be the dissenting voice here but these arent chinos, they are well cut cotton trousers. I think there are a few differences, Tom, and of course BHL is almost 100 cheaper. By getting a made-to-measure pair of chinos, we can take all of your personal preferences into account. There are then smart chinos (eg Rubato) and finally tailored cotton trousers. Generally it will suit smarter trousers, and look unusual with more robust ones. I still wear quality stuff, just more workwear, which is much tougher and gets better the more you wash and wear it. Professional detailing. My only request here Simon is that there are multiple follow ups with how these age. If a jacket is added to the outfit, the chinos instantly become suitable for work, a wedding, sporting events, or a party. At the very least, Id say that if youre aiming for something to be flattering on you, that doesnt necessarily lead to one particular cut. They do look nice. The material of the Real McC is stiffer and a left-hand twill To be honest Id be surprised if Huntsman do have anything. Hi Simon, The leading British website for tailoring, luxury and men's style. With regards to cloth i would suggest that soucing your own to take to the tailors is not a bad option. I wonder whats your view of getting a single pleat in a cotton chino? Chinos from tailors never feel like chinos. Do pleated chinos also have the straight side seam? If I observed them correctly, I think yours are just touching or slightly passing the shoes from the photos above. I love cotton trousers and have had many made by my tailor in stylo jeans as they say in Naples. I havent been able to find robust chino cotton like this, Joel and Sons (Edgeware) Cloth House (soho) the Cloth shop (Portabello road). When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. Regular fit or slim fit? I was trying to find an article on whether to have a turn up on my chinos or not. Very interesting article, as always. Trousers in a wider cut can be flattering too, often making your top half looking slimmer for example. I understand you have young children and have, I think, a child under two? Thank you. From deepest darkest Wales Morgan, Thank you so much Morgan, and thank you for taking the time to write to say so. It looks very loose and too straight on your legs and the waist dips down at the front. But bear in mind theyre more used to orders by brands too, rather than a couple of metres going to a tailor. If I were spending a lot of time in those kinds of conditions, I think Id go for a calf length waterproof coat and big boots, so little or no trouser were exposed. Its a vintage piece from the southwest US bought at AntiQlockwise in Hong Kong. But that wasnt the central issue, because a lot of top-end chinos, often from Japanese makers, are not garment washed. You just cut the trouser leg at a slightly different angle, with one side running down the edge of the cloth. But some wool can be worse, if for example its soft and lightweight. Your chinos from Black horse lane and W&S are basically made from the same cloth? For example too smart a fabric but without a waistband or taper (washable stoffa in sand) and very casual twill but with a canvas waistband and very tapered (anglo-italian). Its very nice as well. On the cut around the waist, this is the same as all my other bespoke trousers from Whitcomb the majority featured here. I have a few MTM chinos where I matched these variables poorly and the final product are stranded in no mans land. Id like something that looks manly, is small and classy and can possibly fit at winter in a coat pocket. Its not often that a single pair of trousers can take you from the office, to an evening out, and finally to breakfast the next morning and in all three settings, youre not only properly dressed, but also well-dressed. Thanks man and happy new year! Though I imagine Huntsman should have something in store for me. A great fitting pair is well worth the investment in my opinion. So its hard to have confidence youre getting the right thing and you wont know until youve made it up, washed and worn it. They may not be from the finest mills in the world but could certainly provide some good quality robust chino fabric. However, I have come to realise that those trousers will just never be as comfortable as my old Rota Sport chinos in which I could lie on the sofa reading a book and feeling like wearing tracksuit trousers. Hi Simon, Perhaps because they used to all be high waisted. I dont carry more things than that but i find it really annoying to overstuff all my pockets or to scratch my wallet or my handy. I am also enjoying the adaptive process of wearing them in and see a long future together. We went for the most common option, which was double stitching on the inside leg and seat. The friendly service was outstanding throughout the process and the quality of the product was exceptional. An intriguing idea for a casual pair of trousers and relevant for those who cannot find the perfect fit that they feel comfortable with (this includes myself). That fabric is perfect, such a shame its been discontinued I have a nice selection of clothes curated over the last five years that I tend to wear at work and on the rare occasion that I am socialising away from my toddler. Weve covered all these over the years on PS, but let me know if you cant find them after a search, I find the tricky part is when you have to go to events with the family. I considered emailing but I want people to see and know! If the waist fits, its likely that the leg is either overly wide and baggy or uncomfortably tight. More pictures of it on the Blackhorse Lane article I link to. I've had a few made to measure suits and the one's I have received from Edit are by far the best! What are the best classic tan RTW chinos available to buy now? Thanks Jim where would you recommend? Simon do you feel with chinos either flat fronted or pleated and indeed cotton trousers that it is generally best to avoid ironing/pressing a centre crease and simply iron them flat as you would jeans? Beautiful pants and an extremely strong outfit. I received my suit in around 3 weeks of ordering and it was an excellent fit (a lot better than ones I have had made elsewhere that were significantly more expensive). A more open V. Basically wasting half of the fabric. If you prefer that your trousers offer a bit more breathing room, well adjust the width of the thigh, knee, and cuff. Thank you for that. I can imagine some purest out there would say this is the cut, but for me part of wearing nice clothes and bespoke tailoring is to hide some unflattering features of the wearer and accentuate the good parts to make the wearer look good. Jeans and chinos have a very particular cut. Is there any fabric you recommend from some specific mills that combines comfort and durability to a perfect level? Bravo. Hi Simon, I have a question about the length of the trousers. I dont think, I really dont, that it makes any difference with Whitcomb who I am. There are some very good fabric suppliers in London especially who would sell a variety of suitable cotton. I think casual corduroys would vary, in terms of being cut like trousers or cut like jeans, but most would be the former I think. The cut, quality and character are off the Richter scale and at 185 a pop, you cant go wrong. Looking at their chino twill it appears to run left to right. Like the cut, these make a huge difference. It makes you look shorter and bigger on the waist than it should. Another way to think about it is that jeans are cut as if the wearer is riding a horse, with their legs unnaturally far part is that because jeans were originally worn by cowboys? Khaki is really a colour, and chino a style. It wont damage the material if you do it sparingly only when you have to, brushing and pressing in between, or spot cleaning if you have to. But looking masculine is the issue. This is interesting. The material you can see here is cotton canvas from Mikutex in Japan, the same one used by Blackhorse Lane for their chinos. Yes Justin, they are. Simon! If you put on a pair of jeans and a pair of tailored trousers and look in the mirror, its here that youll probably notice the difference. As someone who is required by necessity to wear less formal and more hard wearing trousers daily, I, too, have tried chinos from the tailors with similar results to those you describe. Basically, the outside seam of the trouser is a straight line, and only the inside seam is shaped to the style and the wearer. Id like to ask Ed if hed be able to source some metreage for me. With the world's best fabrics and countless customisation options at hand, we will be able to craft unique chinos that will fit you like no other. simon Hi Simon, how would you clean single pleated dress chinos? Some people think larger jackets are more flattering on them, others think tight ones are. Its an interesting area. They will, From the knee. Theyre very different from chino cottons. Its much more likely to be the material the stretch, but also the softness. Book your appointment, We are London and Birmingham's premier menswear tailor, specialising in mens custom tailored made to measure shirts, made to measure suits, and chinos. Simon's books and product collaborations are available to buy through the Permanent Style shop. All too, I would like to receive the newsletter with exclusive offers and product news. The ones cut like chinos immediately felt like chinos. I have a collection of fairly shoddy high street clothes that I wear when Im playing with him, both in the house and out. The Whitcomb has more handwork, like the buttonholes Its 4cm from the bottom. We are London and Birmingham's premier menswear tailor, specialising in mens custom tailored made to measure shirts, made to measure suits, and chinos. Just to clarify on garment washing this is not the cloth supplied, but washing after the trousers are made. I just had a conversation with Ed and Michael about it, seems youre right on that. I wouldnt have thought so. Looking good is not all, Following up on our last post, we look at how to achieve that all important perfect trouser fit. Hello Simon, Ive been a PS reader since day one, and I think this is the most useful article (for me) in recent memory. I brought in a range of chinos to Whitcomb, including new and vintage ones, so we could decide on which elements to choose. I know most people will be happy with ready-made chinos. I do have pairs of Drakes and Incotex that are both finished without, but wanted to get your opinion. So the tailor would have to make them up, then find a local industrial washing facility that was willing to wash one pair, rather than the dozens they normally do. If you prefer wearing your pants lower, well accommodate that by adjusting the waistline and rise. Im getting som chinos hemmed. To be honest, today I would add even a touch more! Its just too bad W&S doesnt travel to Canada. The chinos will also, like most bespoke, be too expensive for the vast majority. Isnt the whole point with chinos that they look rugged and slightly louche to offer a real alternative to jeans ? This can look baggy (although on a coarse material like denim you dont really notice). Its certainly what has happened with my favourites, such as, More important is the fact the fit is as good as my bespoke trousers (the. That cloth is not available by the metre, no. I have also tried to buy off the rack cotton trousers and chinos, but nothing fits or is as comfortable as what a tailor, who knows yours fit, can produce. Hi Simon. I think this article also has also convinced me that bespoke chinos arent worth it for me as long as I can find ready-to-wear chinos that fit me decently, but it has convinced me that dress cotton gabardine trousers are different enough from chinos that they are worth getting MTM. For those guys, this could be a good option. The result is the best fitting and best made pair of chinos I have. Fairly accurate repro might be just what youre looking for. I think its more accurate to describe these as workwear chinos. Out of curiosity, how high is the front rise on this pair? How does the chance of getting messy influence the way you dress around them? But, you can and should press trousers like cottons or linens, or have them a touch longer. You could press a centre seam into a chino, its just that it will not always look perfectly straight on the wearer, if that makes sense. But then they wouldnt look like bespoke ones.. Anyways really interesting post that ill surelly read after 2-3 weeks again like i did with the bag post. I think my first instinct is that Ventile is always going to be a little too ourdoorsy and practical, and that would go for anything other waterproof material as well. Chinos for men or khaki trousers are a staple in every man's wardrobe. Deciding on the best rise for you is always a combination of fit and look. We want you to look good and feel good in your trousers, and know that even just one good pair can radically change your wardrobe. Were all too familiar with the drawbacks. When Whitcomb makes these for customers in the future, those pockets will be higher too. Do you think W&S could make trousers to this cut with any casual fabric e.g. Yes, I talk in the piece here about the best materials for chinos? Amazing. You cant necessarily have the perfect placement, because the trousers have to function as well. Ive never found a tailor that has coarse chino material like this none of the mills or merchants they work with supply it. Whether for your business casual or casual outfit, we can bespoke tailor your custom chino pant according to your specifications and measurements. The only issues with getting all chinos made bespoke in the future will be cost (it is a lot for casual trousers, theres no escaping that) and the available materials. Hey George Interesting article. Its certainly what has happened with my favourites, such as these Armoury ones. It made you look like you have a belly and the belly is pushing down the front of the trousers. You mention the Mikutex cotton canvas has been discontinued. I often fold back the hem at least once on some trousers I find its nice to try both, for a shorter look that shows more sock, and one that doesnt. The belt you wear in the pictures is from? Thanks! And no, no laundry allowance and I havent seen any shrinkage so far. Chinos, even luxury ones, are usually made from tougher fabrics. Weve been steadily reviewing the options Kristian did you see the list of others weve covered, to the top right of this article? It makes sense to end the frustration and go bespoke. Chinos are the staple for any smart casual outfit, so perfectly tailored chinos will make all the difference! Great menswear could not have a better ambassador discerning, conscientious and most importantly stylish!